This Pro Run Coach Got Me To Run a 16:45 5K

[00:00:00] Most runners train for a time they think they should hit, not the one that they’re actually ready for. Here’s how to stop training harder and instead to start training smarter. In this episode, I’ll be going over why most runners get the 5K wrong and how to fix it, how to build real speed endurance without blowing up the secret to lactate tolerance that most trending plans.

[00:00:22] And I’m gonna say most coaches ignore how to shift your mindset so you stop hitting the wall, and if you get all the way to the middle, actually have a free download training plan that will help you run a fast 5K and a whole bunch more. To help me with all of this, I’ll be joined by Mike Trees. He’s an X pro runner and triathlete now, he’s an online coach to thousands with almost half a million followers on Instagram.

[00:00:45] I’m Daren D Lakes up three hour marathon, 10 hour Ironman finishing run coach and human experimental Guinea pig of my own self over the last 30 years trying to figure out how to get 1% better each day and tell all the self-coach runners of the world how to actually do [00:01:00] that. Let’s get into the episode.

[00:01:02] So I’m training to run a 1559 in the next two years. Um, the fastest I’ve run is four 5K. 5K 5,000, yeah. Yeah. 5K. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I’ve ran, the fastest I’ve ran is about, uh, 17, 17 0 5. Um, so here’s a bit of my potential. I, I’ve, right now, I currently can run a 4 55 mile and, um, I’m running about a hundred Ks a week.

[00:01:28] I do two quality days plus a long run. So one is a kind of vo two speed work ish day, and then one is a tempo day, uh, sub-threshold. Um, lots of easy runs. I’d say definitely very 80 20 with my running. And, um, I do strength work, PIOs, I do, I haven’t gotten injured properly in the past maybe two years. I’m on it, you know, I’m at my race weight.

[00:01:49] I’m, I’m, you know, I sleep well. I’ve got all the variables. Uh. Two, two questions on my quality days. Do you think I’m doing [00:02:00] too many? So tech, the third run the, sorry, the long run is technically a quality day. ’cause it, it can be up to about two hours, two hours, 10 minutes. Um, depending on where I am. Uh, do you think I’m doing too many because I feel great.

[00:02:10] Have no injuries. I, I don’t even get Doms anymore. Um, recovery is great. You know, 24 hours later, I’m, I’m fully recovered. I feel good. I don’t do the next workout until 48 hours or later. But, uh, do you think I should drop it down to two? So one interval day and one long run, or you think I’m good where I am going back to.

[00:02:30] More basics. Do you know if you train correctly and efficiently and maximize your training? What the percentage is the breakdown between aerobic and anaerobic for 5,000 meters? It’s 90%. I do know that a quick run science nerve break. So what does anaerobic even mean? Aerobic running uses oxygen, so think long, steady miles and anaerobic that short, intense efforts using glycogen fast, no oxygen needed.

[00:02:57] So all out as fast you can, running from a [00:03:00] line or a dog, 50 meter, a hundred meter sprints, your body burns way hotter, you fatigue quicker, but. You also get faster if you train it right. Actually, I would say if you get it right, it’s, that’s, that’s more of a, a 10,000 meters. I would say you, you could be getting 25% anaerobic if you can really maximize your training for 5K.

[00:03:21] So I would say that you are underachieving on the anaerobic work. I would give you a six week block of a three K session for speed. Uh, and a 5K session, uh, and then a 10 k session for stamina. Uh, and I would vary and, and I would probably push you at the limit. I might even in the six week block, depending on how you respond, because you are good anaerobically.

[00:03:44] If I can get your anaerobic engine really ticked up, I might even put a bit of 1500 meter work in there, uh, 3000 meters and 5,000 stuff and really focus on the short end and, and play to your strengths. You said you came from 800, so play to your eight 1500 strengths to get the [00:04:00] 5K.

[00:04:00] you get a marathon runner, I think. Well, they’ve got this big AOB engine. Let’s just maximize the a hundred mile weeks, their, their 10 K sessions, their 5K, and their aerobic capacity. But I, I think there’s, there’s two ways of skinning at 5,000 and your, your, your borderline that you could push in a little bit more speed work and really get out and get used to running some, some Ks in, you know.

[00:04:20] 3, 3 10 Ks and, and going quicker than race pace. So when you get the start line, you are getting through the first two couple of Ks thinking, well, this is easy. You’re sitting there and you are, you are waiting for that last 2K when it kicks in. But you, you can cope with lactic. Okay? So I’m thinking, cool.

[00:04:36] I’ve got the training block, but then Mike trees drops this bomb. It’s not just about speed, it’s about how much pain you can tolerate. And the last one kilometer, half mile, that is all lactate

[00:04:48] So you might be asking yourself, Hey Daren, how do I put this into practice? Don’t worry. I built a free base training and 5K plan that does exactly what Mike Trees is talking about. It builds that speed and lactate tolerance without [00:05:00] destroying your legs.

[00:05:00] You’ll also get the 1% better. Run our newsletter. That’s five minutes every week in your email inbox. Which goes deep on mental strength mindset, VO O2, max 10 K, marathon, all these types of training. The link at the QR code here to get it the link below on the show notes of your podcast player. Let’s get back into the episode.

[00:05:18] So what you’ve got is you’ve got the threshold work for lactic. Where we work around the threshold, but you’ve got the lactic tolerance. So towards the end, the last kilometer of 5K, it doesn’t matter how much lactic you, you build up, if you can cope with it. And, and there’s some phenomenal stories of, you know, people like Sebastian Co that could hold I, it was 17, 18 millimoles of, of lactic, you know, per milliliter of per liter of blood in his body.

[00:05:44] Whereas most people. You, you struggle at four. So that’s where the threshold is considered. The four millimole level is, is a technical term people use. They get past four and they can’t really run much. But if you can cope with its absolute tolerance, not the threshold, but the tolerance as well, that’s [00:06:00] where you can maximize it.

[00:06:01] So that tolerance might even get you something like 15, 20 seconds in the. One kilometer. If you can cope with it, that’s huge over 5K. Alright, let’s clear something up. Lactate doesn’t shut you down, you shutting down, shut you down. So it’s your brain. Actually the key is avoiding the burn. It’s training your body to hold form and speed while it burns and you’re basically training your brain to go, Hey, I’m not killing.

[00:06:24] We can handle it. That is tolerance. That’s what races are won and best times are made. So I would say that what you’re doing is essentially right, but I would give you a six week block at the end where we tweak it and work to your strengths. Uh, and it might take a couple of blocks to work out exactly what that is.

[00:06:39] Is it 1500 work? Is it 3000 meter work? Uh, but I would give you something quicker and you are on the borderline at your age. I could cope with three hard sessions a week. So, uh, plus the long run, uh. Oh yeah. Yeah. The long run. I don’t consider that a session. That’s an easy, that’s, that’s, oh, wow. That’s, that’s separate.

[00:06:56] So it, we’re talking at, at the level [00:07:00] you’re running at, I mean, for a beginner runner, uh, and someone at a, a, a lower le sounds, we were saying a lower level, but that haven’t built up and haven’t got the history that you’ve got. I think when you’re looking at 17 minutes, we could look at a Tuesday, a Thursday, Saturday.

[00:07:15] And then do the long run on a Sunday, just as the recovery run. And for 5,000 you really, you know, in the last period you really need to be doing 60 minutes. You don’t need to be, you know, over the winter, yeah, you can build it up 90 minutes longer run. But when you’re doing that real speed work at the end, you don’t want the 90 minutes.

[00:07:32] ’cause that’s gonna knock off the, the speed at the top end. So I wouldn’t have you running more than 60 minutes for a long run at the end, but I would have you doing, uh, a set of. 12, 400, we’ll say on the track on Tuesday. Uh, maybe something. Uh, a bit longer on the Thursday, uh, where we’re doing a bit more and you’re doing something like, uh, eight by one k, just taking it a little bit over the stamina.

[00:07:57] Uh, and then a 5K time trial [00:08:00] park run on a Saturday. And then as we get close, we might cut those eight by one K down to five or five by one k just to get you. Running quicker than race pace. Uh, we might alter those 12 by 400, sometimes to 12 by 300, uh, to, to really get the, the leg speed in there, uh, and give you a a nice.

[00:08:18] Decent rest so he can get you, you know, running quick. That was the moment I’d been doing a lot of things right, but not those things. So things like short, very fast reps, weekly, slower temple runs, and using park runs as a time trial. It felt like sharpening the blade instead of swinging a dull acts harder.

[00:08:38] Uh, and then on easy days, this is what people get wrong. I could get you running some 50 meter strides. Well if, if you are. You, you said the words yourself five seconds, a TP. Uh, some people might say it’s up to seven, but it’s 50 meters. It, it’s fine if you get a long jog between, you could then even do some strides on the days between.

[00:08:56] So we could really maximize the amount of speed work you’re doing. So it looks as though you need [00:09:00] a lot of hard work, but you’re not. And another run science nerd break. So speed endurance is this. Awkward zone. That’s just above race pace. It’s not sprinting. It’s not cruising. So VO two max or even faster than VO two max, probably close to your three K Fitness and touching one mile race, all out fitness.

[00:09:19] It’s also where most breakthroughs happen, but you can rejoice because you don’t need much to get the benefits. Just a few minutes total per week, broken down into short. Intervals. Does that help? Wow, that was, that, that’s what I, I’ve been wanting to hear. ’cause I’ve, you know, I’ve done, I’ve self coached and now I’m really considering using you as my coach.

[00:09:40] Um, so that, that was, you’ve sold me. Um, yeah, I, it’s funny because, you know, three years ago I wouldn’t have been able to handle what I’m doing now. I’ve slowly built up to this, but. I’m like, I’m not sore anymore and yeah. Yeah. I don’t have to be sore. I know. Pro runners really don’t get sore. I had a friend that was a pro, he was like, I don’t get sore anymore.

[00:09:56] He ran a 1 47, 800 and he is like, I rarely am sore after [00:10:00]workouts. I understand that’s what happened. So you can’t, you can’t gauge it on, oh, did I go hard enough by how sore you are? But, um, I definitely am really fresh and, and I’m like, okay, that means I can handle more work and. And, and like you said, I, I’m sitting back going, I don’t have this crazy aerobic engine.

[00:10:16] I’ve never had it. I can build it, it’s gonna take me, you know, even more years. But it totally makes sense. Mm-hmm. That I capitalize on my speed. Like I, you know, I do the, the, the VDOT calculator, which I’m pretty sure you’re, you’re well aware of. Um, mm. Jack Daniels. And it’s like, yeah. Yeah. I, I’m like, you know, I, I basically, I know I, if I trained, I could probably run a four 40 mile, one mile, um mm-hmm.

[00:10:36] You know, maybe even four 30, if I properly trained for a year, I think I can, I still have that in me, that means I should be able to run like a two 20 marathon, two 15. So I’m like, the VDOT score doesn’t make any sense with what I’m actually, you know, what you can do in the VDOT score never makes sense.

[00:10:49] Um, you have to, it’s just that’s your potential, but you have to actually work at it. So, um, I know that I’m heavier on the. The speed. So I need to work that, especially for the 5K. ’cause like you said, [00:11:00] that is more speed. And you know, in my head I’m like, it’s more aerobic and I think, I think it’s a combination.

[00:11:05] I haven’t, my brain has not seen my body do the speed, you know, past five minutes. The 3, 3 10 per K that I need to do three 12 per k. It hasn’t seen it. Mm-hmm. So it’s not allowing me to do it. So it’s like, it’s this like this. This subconscious thing that’s happening where my, I just freak out if I’m whole, if I’m like, I, I start, the lactic starts building up, I freak out and I slow it down a bit, you know, I hit 3 20, 3 25 and it’s like, okay, that’s comfortable and that’s not gonna get me to where I want to go.

[00:11:31] So it, embrace it. Embrace it. I, I have you doing, I get you doing a three in the buildup. I can get you doing a three K time trial on the track, getting under nine 30. That’s your aim, you know? Yeah. Uh, and it’s quicker than raised pace, but it’s, you know, if you can cope with that, you, you, you’re coping with.

[00:11:48] The lactic buildup, uh, it’s making you, you more able to cope with it, uh, uh, and it’ll really pay dividends, uh, when you, you come out and do the race. Not so beneficial for 10 K, but for 5K it’s still, you know, [00:12:00] I think you could, you know, take big chunks off, off the time. All right. All right. Well I’m, it’s, I’m actually going into the last six weeks, uh, of this, of this block.

[00:12:10] So it’s a 12 week block, but I broke it into kind of like, uh, uh, build building in, so I’m ending my VO two max. So I actually wanted to do more race specific. So this is perfect timing ’cause I actually will implement this, um, over the next four to six weeks. And I’ll probably do four just to be safe. Um, ’cause I don’t wanna break myself.

[00:12:28] And if I do well then I’ll, I’ll, I’ll either sign up with you or I’ll just implement it, but, um, yeah, I’m, I’m definitely you, you’ve sold me. You. I like that. I like that. Six, six weeks to make a physiological change. Uh, less than three. You’re probably not gonna do much the forward work. A lot of, uh, my guru that I, I, I like Arthur Ard, who based things, you know, he, he could get people fit, you know, in just a little bit of speed.

[00:12:51] Work on, on three or four weeks, uh, so long as the aerobic engine’s there. It doesn’t take too much anaerobic work to, to get you fit. To four weeks to be perfect, four weeks, [00:13:00] uh, and a nice taper. Uh, to, to freshen up. Uh, and you’d be raring to go. If you wanna apply everything that we talked about or even just a couple things right now to your own training and racing, grab my free 5K training plan that builds speed and lactate tolerance the smart way.

[00:13:15] Get that at the QR code here, link below, or check your podcast player show notes. And if you’re not sure your base is strong enough, that’s where you need to start. So watch this next episode on base training, everything you need to know. Fully comprehensive base training toolkit as it breaks down exactly how to structure your base training and why skipping it is the fastest way to get it injured or plateauing, and you won’t be able to run a fast 5K.

[00:13:38] So get that here below, or in the show notes of again, your podcast player. If you’re listening, peace.