You’ve Been Doing Tempo Runs Wrong This Whole Time

[00:00:00] You’ve probably been told to run tempo, but no one agrees on what that even means. One coach says it’s marathon pace. Another runner says it’s between zones two and three, and then there’s the internet where tempo somehow overlaps with sweet spot threshold and the mysterious gray zone. No wonder training feels like a guessing game.

[00:00:18] Here’s what finally clicked for me, so that you can run at your best time. In this episode, you’ll learn the definition of tempo run that actually works in the real world. How it differs from gray Zone running VO two max intervals and aerobic based training when to use Temple runs for 5K versus marathon training.

[00:00:34] The hidden danger of Temple runs that most runners miss. And a free download to start doing Temple runs right now. To help me with all this, I’ll be joined by Mike Trees. He’s an ex pro runner and triathlete now online coach to thousands. With half a million followers on Instagram. I’m Daren D Lake run coach and human lab rat.

[00:00:51] With 30 years of running data experience, I’ve chased sub three hour marathons and a 10 hour Ironman so that I could figure out this whole temple running thing. Also, that I could help 10,000 self-coach runners just like you get 1% better each day. Let’s get into the episode, so it tends to come in base training.

[00:01:09] Uh, or early in the race preparation period where I’m just getting them used to running fast, but I still want high volume of training going. And if we go too fast, we, we end up losing a lot of the, the volume of the overall training we’re trying to achieve. So, uh, a tempo run comes, definitely comes into the 20% hard training if we have an 80 20 rule.

[00:01:30] Uh, and, and we could say that it is part of that block. Uh, it’s if you want to use, uh, threshold as a, a definition of billing, lactate, it’s a sub-threshold. It’s an aerobic run. Uh, it’s sort of the top of zone to, of people like to use that zone. It’s, uh, math, maximum aerobic, uh, pace. If we’re using math, it’s probably even a little bit beyond that.

[00:01:56] It could even be technically just touching the gray zone. I mean, it, it’s such a gray area. It, it’s a, it’s an area that we’re pushing, uh, and we’re, we’re trying to maintain it for a set period of time, but we, we are finishing feeling strong. I think people can over-engineer it and say, your heart rate’s too much of this, it’s too much that this, it’s just a good solid pace.

[00:02:18] Let’s go right into really what, what I wanna talk about, which is how this is similar to gray zone training, and I know the gray zone is subjective, right? Because the gray zone for, for someone. Depending on their coach is different than the gray zone for someone else. So the gray zone can be doing a walk, can be the gray zone, or the gray zone can be doing sprints.

[00:02:42] Uh, but I think generally speaking, traditionally speaking, the gray zone is usually between zones two and zones three. It’s this, this pace that everyone. Especially beginning runners, um, like to just slip into, because it feels like you’re running fast enough, you’re getting your heart rate up, but you’re also not running too fast.

[00:02:59] Like, how is it, how does a temple run relate to the gray zone? Is it the same thing, is basically what I’m trying to say. For me, I, I define a gray zone. As drifting into a zone you shouldn’t be in. That’s all it is it, I don’t like to say zone 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and when I’m actually working with my athletes, I never discussed zones.

[00:03:20] ’cause we know what heart rate or what intensity they should be working at. So I might be saying. To one guy, you, you want to be in around about the, the one 50, make your maximum heart rate about one 50. I don’t use zone 1, 2, 3, 4, or five. I just talk about specific heart rate or someone who works to feeling I’ll say, look it for you.

[00:03:37] That’s about a seven outta 10 for effort. But a, a, a, a gray zone is when I say go for an easy run. And it’s not really easy, but it’s not really hard. It’s just that you’re feeling good, so you’re pushing a little bit too much. Uh, and then you’ve got in the gray zone or I’m giving you your, uh, interval workout and it’s just not really fast enough.

[00:03:55] You’re not pushing hard enough ’cause you’re too tired from everything else and you’ve dropped down a little bit too much. So, uh, so I, I don’t, this is where we get lots of arguments on social media. Oh, you, you are now telling us to run the gray zone and you say don’t go in the gray zone. It’s, it comes down to semantics.

[00:04:12] The gray zone to me, really is just running in a, an intensity that isn’t what I want you to be doing. And so a tempo run, uh, it is good specifically when you are building it for marathons ’cause you need to be working at Marathon race pace. And I find a tempo run is pretty good for that. So I could send someone for a 16 K or 10 mile tempo run and I say, look, you’ve got a marathon coming up.

[00:04:35] Let’s get you running 10 miles at marathon race pace. It’s not actually that hard because you have to roll 26 miles at marathon race pace or you know, 42 kilometers. So if I’m sending someone for a 10 mile run, which is a 16 kilometer in metric work, uh, they can maintain that pace. So they should be able to maintain that pace for the whole marathon.

[00:04:55] So that’s the kind of pace I’m asking ’em to do, um, saying, look, it, it’s quite a tough pace. But it’s not too tough that you can’t maintain it. If, if they’re not training for the marathon, we will send them out at their half marathon race pace, but we’ll get them only to do, you know, maybe eight kilometers at that pace.

[00:05:13] So a, again, it’s a pace that’s. The, their target race pace, but, uh, a little bit shorter on the distance. Alright, if you’re wondering how to implement this into your own training and you’re like, Daren, please help me. Don’t worry. I got you. I’ve made a free tempo, AKA sub-threshold, eight week training plan that you can get right now.

[00:05:33] It shows you how to exactly find your tempo pace using heart rate. Feel or pace plus when not to do it so that you don’t burn out. We’ve got scheduling and programming, et cetera. Get it at the QR code right here. Link below or link in the show notes of your podcast app. Let’s get back in to the episode.

[00:05:51] So why is it important for a 5K runner do tempo runs versus why is it important for a marathon runner? Do temple runs. It’s less important for a 5K runner to do tempo, uh, work because they can do their 400 intervals at race pace. They can do three by one K at race pace. They can do lots of other things to get their work out.

[00:06:09] And it’s not such a long distance for a marathon runner. You can’t go out and run the whole marathon distance. So I can do a whole 5K distance workout in one session and not tire myself too much, whereas a marathon, I can’t say to a runner, oh, go out and run, uh, 42 Ks at race pace. Uh, even or do 42 times one, one k intervals, it would kill them.

[00:06:32] So we need to do other ways of stressing the body. That’s one thing. Another reason is the body becomes most efficient at what it does most. So if I want someone to run at a set pace for the marathon. I want the muscles to get used to working. I want the brain to work it out. I just want you to be comfortable at working at that pace.

[00:06:52] With tempo runs comes the talk of lactate, lactic acid systems, actic threshold, uh, lactose, which is milk. Uh, my understanding is that. It used to be called lactic. All of this used to be called lactic, by the way, lactoses milk, okay? This has nothing to do with this. Uh, you don’t have milk running through your, your blood.

[00:07:14] All right? I, I thought that one, I was like, oh, I got lactose in my sense. Like, no, no, no. That’s not, it’s not a thing, Daren. It’s the lactic acid system. And this is, we’re getting really nerdy here. So if you want to tune out, feel free for the next few minutes if you just want to go to Why is this helped me as a runner?

[00:07:27] Uh, I just like to know these wording. A lot of people hear this wording and it gets confusing. So I wanted to clear this up. So there’s the lactic acid system, therefore everyone called it, you have lactate in your system, but now it’s actually lactate. You have lactate in your system, but it’s the tactic acid system and it’s a lactic threshold test.

[00:07:45] Hold on. And guess what is actually in your blood? And I’m sure you know this ’cause you’re exercise scientist, but. You actually have hydrogen in your body and that’s what gets released. And that actually is what causes the burning feeling and the muscle aching later on. A lot of, you know, people that don’t understand how this works, they say, oh, the next day I wanna flush out the, lack the lactic from my system.

[00:08:09] And I’m like, that’s actually wrong on so many levels, me trying to be a nerd. But feel free to, to go in and tell me where I went wrong. No, it’s changing all the time. It’s actually, I think these days we call it the the Gly Gly Glycolytic System. Okay. Uh, instead of the lactic acid. So that’s what the research scientists use.

[00:08:24] But then I was talking to some, some guys a lot clever than me and say, look, if everyone understands the lactate system, why, why do we need to sort of keep changing it? That’s what we use in research. But if that’s what everyone associates with it, uh, and it’s not really the lactic that that gives us the burn, as you’re saying.

[00:08:39] Uh, but actually what we do is when we’ve found that. Our bodies actually can reuse the, the, uh, lactic that’s built up as energy. So we actually reuse that as energy later on down the line. And we’re trying to become more efficient at reusing the energy that, uh, is created. Uh, and the next day, uh, yeah, so probably.

[00:08:58] The, the, your lactic levels, if you were to take a test the next day, uh, ideally they’ll have reduced, they’ll returned back to, to normal levels. But, uh, you have the doms from the damage that’s created, probably from the hydrogen, uh, particles in the blood. The point is, whatever we want to call it, it’s.

[00:09:14] This lac it, it stops, it. It’s, it inhibits the oxygen getting through the muscles. This is the essence of it. So if we go too fast, when the particles are built up and the lactic is built up in the blood, it prevents oxygen getting to the muscles, and we want to get as much oxygen. Uh, I think we got this cap development, uh, and we need to get as much oxygen into the.

[00:09:37] Uh, the muscles, the working muscles as we can. And so that’s why we are trying to limit the amount of lactate buildup, uh, in our bloodstream. Uh, and so this is where people like Mone was, was big on saying, well, we, we just gotta stay outta that zone and stay in the aerobic zone, uh, and do aerobic development.

[00:09:56] But I think there’s a time and place for everything. I think you need to work a little bit into that zone as well. To become more efficient, uh, at adapting. Thanks for watching this far. If you’re feeling this or anything else I’ve done, the best thing you can do is watch it all the way to the end. It keeps the YouTube and podcast algorithm Gods happy, and then shows it to other self-coach runners just like you.

[00:10:16] And if you really wanna help me, hit subscribe, like, and share out the link below or in the show notes to a runner. Thank you again. I found out that temple runs were really valuable, especially if you can get in the right. Uh, I know you hate the zone in the right heart rate, where yeah, it’s basically where you’re producing just a little bit of Lac lactate.

[00:10:38] Um, and honestly, the only way to know that is by doing the lactate, um, monitor testing where you do the blood pricks, which, uh, they’re expensive. One, two, you need to pretty much be either on a track or on a treadmill. You need to have someone else do it for you. Only pros have access to this. So this is why we do field, this is why we do, uh, pace and this is why we use heart rate.

[00:10:57] Um, and I’m in the zone ish. I’m gonna get myself personally, I’m gonna get a Lac, a a, a LAC lactate test done, a lactate threshold test done. Uh, I want to get one done probably in the beginning of the season and then closer towards racing so I can. Tighten up my heart rate zones, and then I use those heart rate zones when I go to race.

[00:11:14] So, um, they’re a bit expensive, but it’s more realistic. We talked about VO two max test. I got one done in my life. I’m never gonna get another one done. My DVO two max is deteriorating as I age. I’m not, I don’t, it doesn’t do anything more for me, so, um. I’m interested in certain numbers because I, I’m a nerd like you are.

[00:11:31] This is where, you know, Kreb cycle and all that gets really interesting, so we’ll save that for another podcast. The, the, the simple thing is with the lactate, when you’re talking about numbers. Is you’ve got the two milli mole of lactate in the blood, uh, and the four milli mole. These are two zones. So the classic actic threshold that people talk about, which is between, you know, uh, zone three and zone four is usually where the lactate is around about four milli mos of lactate, uh, in the bloodstream.

[00:12:00] Uh, and the two millimole zone is your fat burning, carb burning. Boundary or threshold. So that could be L one, LT one, and LT two. So LT lactic threshold one is at first turn point where you turn from carp fat burning to carbohydrate burning. So this is why you need to do a lot of easy running in that level because that’s what you’re trying to do is become more efficient at fat burning.

[00:12:22] And the formula mold level is the threshold you are talking about, which we’re trying to deflect that. Curve a little bit to the right so we can run more at a quicker pace aerobically without building up lactate in the, in the bloodstream. Uh, and again, as you said, you’d go into a, a lab or you’d run a treadmill and have finger pricks every three minutes.

[00:12:41] You’d pick up the pace and find out where it is. I personally actually subscribe to a little bit of a theory and breaking down the tempo run. So I like being granular. I like complicating things, and I look to break a tempo run down to a slow tempo. A mid tempo and a fast tempo, and what I base that on is, uh, the slow tempo is between my current half marathon and marathon pace.

[00:13:05] Mid tempo is between my, uh, half marathon and 10 K pace and then, uh, slow, sorry. Fast tempo is between my 10 K and 5K pace, and the fast tempo is actually closer to our, what I think more people, what you would say is 60 minutes, what you can sustain for 60 minutes. I never personally understood that because I’m like, I never run a 60 minute race.

[00:13:28] Like I don’t, I, my, my 10 K time is 30, anywhere from 36 to 38 minutes. Depending on how fit I am, so I’m like, all right, six minute race. My half marathon is 122, you know, sorry, an hour, 22 minutes. I’m like, what the hell is a 60 minute race? Like that doesn’t make any sense. Whereas maybe someone that runs a 10 K at 60 minutes, there you go.

[00:13:44] You could run it. So it really bothered me that whole 60 minute, what you can do for 60 minutes. Um, even for the bike, it’s always, you know, the ft p to what you could sustain for 60 minutes. I’m like, what the. Bike racing by doing that 60 minutes long. Um, so I do the, the, the slow tempo, mid tempo, fast tempo as a guide for myself.

[00:14:01] And that helps me. I usually actually only do slow tempo stuff, um, which is between half marathon and marathon pace. ’cause that ends up being. It, it correlates perfectly with Z three. It correlates perfectly with, oh, I could do this for 60 minutes. That felt great. I could tackle another 15 minutes. So that actually slow tempo and mid tempo end up being more of what I should be in.

[00:14:21] But I always slide into that like kind of 10 k pace. ’cause it feels good. When should you not do a. A tempo run and I’ll, I’ll preface this with a quick sidebar story of the downsides of tempo runs. I’m finding out that it takes me so long to recover from tempo runs like 72 hours plus, so three days plus to recover from even moderate tempo.

[00:14:44] Runs meet like slow tempo runs, uh, what should be most people. And I just think I’m genetically just, but. I can recover really fast from 12 by four hundreds though, so, you know, 36 hours I’m ready to go. So it’s like I’m naturally predisposed to running fast, which is, you know, fine and dandy, but. If I wanna run a fast marathon or run, run a fast half marathon or even 10 k, I need to start doing tempo runs.

[00:15:05] I’ve learned to be very careful about when I prescribe them. Well, no, the, the thing is with tempo runs is the classic is send two guys out for a run together. They’re mates and they’re always just trying to half inch each other one guy a bit quicker than the other and just test how fit they are. They end up doing a tempo run for an easy run the whole way round with a sprint at the end.

[00:15:24] Uh, and so you obviously, you don’t wanna be getting into these sort of runs when it’s an easy run. The, the thing with the tempo run is why you shouldn’t put too many in there is that they feel great for some reason. When you do them and you finish, you feel great. You’ve got this buzz, the endorphins are flower flowing.

[00:15:39] But you, you, I tend to find that I don’t sleep as well afterwards ’cause I’m a little bit more tired than, than I feel. I don’t feel that tired at the end of it. But actually you’ve done quite a bit of hard work, uh, and I think people don’t realize how fatiguing they are and then do another hard session too close after them.

[00:15:55] So I would, I. Generally after tempo run, we’ll have two easy days before giving someone another hard run. Uh, and then obviously it’s an older athlete. I might even give them three easy days. But, uh, it, you’ve just gotta be careful with, with how often you, you introduce them into the training and make sure that the athlete is fit enough, uh, and ready to do them.

[00:16:15] But, uh, I, I like to give time trials for races and things. A tempo run is a good substitute for time trial. Okay. Uh, you know, you can, it’s a little bit easier. The time trial allows you a time trial is pretty much race paced, but in training conditions or you’re trying to get close to it, a tempo runs a little bit easier.

[00:16:31] So, uh, sometimes. I might give a tempo run to someone who’s nervous about a time trial and nervous about failing. I’ll say a tempo run. They don’t feel quite so stressed out, oh, I can achieve that, because there’s no strict boundaries around it. So again, it’s knowing your athletes and, and how you work with them.

[00:16:47] Uh, and, and, and again, it comes outta terminology. Uh, again, it’s quite a complex area, but uh, and it is difficult to get it all through in a podcast because there’s so many variations. Yeah, you, you actually touched on, um, the, the fatigue and the recovery needed, and I actually saw a graph from, uh, training peaks, I think it was training peaks, and they showed the glycogen depletion from a temple run versus from an interval.

[00:17:13] Let’s call threshold of VO two max. Um, session VO two max, building like a, a 12 by 400 or even a a four by five minutes at 5K pace. That’s an interval run versus a 30 or 40 minute tempo run that’s around your 10 K pace. The amount of glycogen depletion was like 30% more than even though it, even though one you feel better, and two, you ran slower, but you did actually more work as you said.

[00:17:39] So you need more recovery time ’cause you depleted more glycogen. But as you said exactly, people come back after 48 hours and they go do another workout, so then you deplete glycogen even more and you keep coming in in these depleted glycogen. Um, states and then after two, three weeks, four weeks, you burned out.

[00:17:57] Again, if you want to up your Tempo Run game, I’ve created a free tempo, AKA sub-threshold, eight week training plan that you can get right now. And as a bonus, you’ll get signed up to my email newsletter where you will automatically get deep dives, just like this episode and more VO two max long run Strides, mental fitness, et cetera, sent straight to your inbox in five minutes or less each week.

[00:18:17] But. Temple runs are putting the cart before the horse. Before you get there, you should really understand what threshold running is and how to train it properly. I did a deep dive on that in the episode right here. Click the link below or link in the video description or show notes piece.